Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Upgrading Coyote Fuel Systems

The 2011-2014 Coyote powered Mustang GT and Boss 302 are popular platforms for upgrades, and some owners eventually get to the point of needing a fuel upgrade.  The most basic fuel upgrade is large injectors with a pump voltage booster, which is perfectly adequate for mild builds.  More extreme builds require a properly planned fuel system.

 

UNDERSTANDING THE OEM FUEL SYSTEM

In order to plan a proper fuel system, a basic understanding of the OEM system is required.  Let's get one thing straight...the Coyote fuel system is NOT an electronic returnless fuel system like the GT500.  Yes, there is a Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM)...and yes, there is not a return line.  However, fuel pump speed is NOT modulated to maintain a target fuel pressure...instead the FPDM is only used to reduce pump voltage during low load conditions...the rest of the fuel is simply "blown off" inside the fuel tank by a fuel pressure regulator.  We classify this type of fuel system as mechanical returnless, since it is mechanically regulated and there is not a return line.

In order to accommodate this functionality, the OEM (driver side) pump module is configured to stuff the following components in a relatively small package:
  • fuel pump (Delphi T-23)
  • coarse pre-filter (to protect the fuel pump)
  • fine post-filter (to protect the injectors)
  • venturi transfer pump
  • level sender
  • fuel pressure regulator (static)
  • suction tube connector
  • check valve

 

LIMITATIONS OF THE OEM FUEL SYSTEM

The in-tank components of the Coyote Mustang were engineered to work together.  Incremental upgrades such as voltage boosting the pump are generally not substantial enough to exploit the weakness of the other components.  However, a substantial upgrade such as multiple upgraded fuel pumps requires high capacity filtration, and upgraded regulation with the additional functionality of manifold pressure (boost) reference, upgraded electrical system, and larger fittings and feed/return lines.

Additionally, some E85 conversions require additional E85 enhancements, such as stainless filtration media, filter loss monitoring, ethanol content monitoring, etc.  ...none of which are possible with the OEM fuel system.

UPGRADING THE COYOTE FUEL SYSTEM

Our high end customers use our fuel pump modules that can deliver up to 4.5 times the pump capacity of the OEM module.  As you can imagine, this needs appropriate support components so the entire system can function properly.  Here is a quick rundown of how we spec out a built Coyote fuel system:

PUMP MODULE
Our module retains the OEM level sender and has it's own venturi jet pumps so you don't lose any functionality of the original fuel tank.  However, our module can hold two or three big pumps that can deliver more fuel than any single electric external pump.  Needless to say, these pumps don't leave enough room to install the rest of the necessary [upgraded] components, so they have to go outside the tank.

FILTRATION
Unlike the OEM filter, which is inside the tank, we provide a large, external, serviceable fuel filter that can be equipped with stainless steel filter element for E85 compatibility.  Additionally, placing the filter outside the tank allows pressure monitoring before the filter, which we consider necessary with E85 builds.  BTW, the OEM Coyote filter is not E85 compatible.

CHECK VALVE
More flow requires a larger check valve.  Our check valve is simply too large to fit inside the fuel tank, so we simple install it on the end of our external filter

REGULATION
Engines that sip fuel at idle, but guzzle massive amounts of fuel at WOT need a larger regulator that can accurately deliver fuel throughout the entire range of fuel consumption.  Additionally, most tuners prefer a "boost referenced" fuel pressure regulator for forced induction motors.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
The factory electrical system is simply not sized properly to handle high current aftermarket pumps, nor does it separate the individual pumps into isolated circuits so that pumps may be properly "staged" to maximize reliability.  A proper electrical upgrade is the most overlooked aspect of a high capacity fuel system.

FUEL LINES AND FITTINGS
Properly sized fuel lines are necessary to delivery the planned supply flowrate.  Undersized fuel line will create increased backpressure at the fuel pumps and reduced flowrate to the injectors, resulting in excess wear on fuel pumps and reduced fuel system capacity.

ETHANOL CONTENT MONITORING
If you have a high capacity fuel system and want to monitor the ethanol content of your alcohol blended fuel, the preferred way is to intercept the RETURN line with a GM flex fuel sensor.  Our built Coyote fuel systems have return line access for easy installation of this sensor.  (and it's an option in our kits)

SUMMARY

When it's all said and done, if you have a mildly built Coyote, a pump voltage booster and large injectors may be all you need....but once your hunger for power and ETs exceeds these mild upgrades, a proper fuel system for your Coyote does not follow in the same footsteps as the OEM system.

Friday, April 25, 2014

Restrictive Flex Fuel Sensor?


Flex fuel sensors are becoming more popular in the aftermarket. Naturally, performance enthusiasts speculate these "OEM" style sensors could be a flow restriction when used with a built fuel system.

There is plenty of internet chatter about sensor "flow rates" and some companies are even selling elaborate sensor bypass arrangements because of the "restriction" in these sensors. However, nobody provides any test data to validate the effectiveness of their product.

We called one of the leading suppliers and integrators of these sensors and asked for performance data. Surprisingly, they didn't have any data either, but they assured me that plenty of "high power" cars run their sensors. To validate their claim, we decided to test ourselves. Test results follow (GM #13577394)


Interpretation

Looking at the results, we can see that a fuel system delivering 600 lph will have a ~1.5psi loss across the sensor. For perspective, 600 lph of fuel is similar to (actually less than) maxing out eight ID1300s and/or two TI Auto F90000267s on a fuel system providing 43 psi base pressure with 30 psi of boost.

Question:  How will a 1.5psi loss affect the 600 lph fuel system?
Answer:  Less than 10 liters/hour...and this car is probably putting down four digits to the wheels.

Affect on Returnless Fuel Systems

It is reasonable to say any returnless fuel system (mechanical or electronic) is not going to max perform eight ID1300s and dual F90000267s. In fact, most returnless cars probably use less than 400 lph, which barely registers a loss on the sensor we tested. If you fit this criteria, don't waste your time and money with y-blocks and bypass lines...there is nothing to gain.

From an installation flexibility standpoint, you may install the sensor in one of the distribution lines that goes to one of the fuel rails with no detrimental affects. (flow through the sensor is cut in half)

One warning here--many returnless cars have in-tank filters, which are usually not E85 compatible, so check before you think about running E85 in your returnless fuel system.

Affect on Return Fuel Systems

Built return fuel systems take a "ground up" approach to maximizing fuel delivery, and the measured losses are definitely a problem if used in the feed line on our high end fuel systems. The alternate sensor location is the return line, which could potentially induce a regulation error. Good news: we tested this sensor on the return line from an F2i regulator and picked up zero additional regulator error over a 240-1200 lph bypass range. FYI, here is the regulation error of our F2i, which is excellent. (don't expect these results from other brand regulators)





Thursday, February 20, 2014

Increase Fuel Pump Capacity 50% for Free.

Okay, this article doesn't apply to everyone, but we all love risky, warranty voiding modifications to squeeze unintended performance out of a product. Don't worry, this doesn't involve fancy five axis CNC port work...while this modification can be performed by anybody with a drill and hammer, we suggest you leave this modification to an expert.

As of this writing, the TI Automotive F90000267 is the standard fuel pump to run on high boost street/strip cars running ethanol blended fuel. While this is currently one of the highest performing electric pumps available, the safety relief valve is a weakness that needs to be considered if you're pushing your fuel pressure past 80 psi.

TI Automotive publishes the following performance curve for a new F90000267. Detailed performance data between 80-90 psi is not provided, but the change in the slope of the performance graph indicates the relief valve may actuate anywhere in between 80-90 psi and still be in specification.


Broken-in pumps perform better than new pumps; however, repeated actuation of the relief valve causes degradation in the relief spring. In order to find out "which one" wins, we took a used pump (that had spent some time at high pressures) and tested before / after the modification. As you can see, performance before relief valve actuation is better than the new pump, but performance after the relief valve could be unsafe for some cars...especially if the valve is allowed to degrade under repeated actuation after the initial tune.



APPLICATION

Thanks to Tony and his crew at T1 Race Development for pushing us to get more out of these pumps and proving out the effectiveness of these changes. He was gracious enough to provide the following screen before/after captures from a couple R35s at his shop:







HOW TO MODIFY

First off, you have to completely remove the fuel pump from the hanger/module. If you are using one of our cartridge based modules, it is best to plan ahead an purchase an o-ring kit for reassembly...the o-rings will likely tear when you take everything apart.

Drill a 4.5mm hole as shown...(but try to do a better job of getting the hole on center...CNC is our thing...not necessarily hand tools):



Use a M4 screw to find the depth of the spring seat, then adjust the jam nuts so you can press the spring seat down another 1.5mm.  (FYI, two turns on a M4 screw = 1.4mm)  Done.



Here's what you did.  There is a spring behind the ball...you simply pressed down the spring so that the ball doesn't spring open at 80-90 psi.




WILL THIS BENEFIT YOUR APPLICATION?

This won't help everybody...this is only valid if you're pushing the pumps beyond 80 psi. Remember, in a boost referenced application, the fuel pump operates at base pressure + boost pressure + system losses.  (do you monitor the loss across your fuel filter...like this?)



DOES THIS PUT THE PUMPS AT RISK?

Absolutely forget a pump warranty...but you're probably used to hearing that if you're using 80 psi of fuel pressure. By the way, TI Automotive is planning a future revision in the F90000267 to increase the blowoff pressure to 110 psi. Until then, this is the best way to accommodate high base+boost cars.





Saturday, June 1, 2013

Fuel Systems and Heat

Few people think about the heat in their fuel system. The truth is, heat has a substantial affect on how long your fuel pumps live. OEM fuel systems have controls to reduce the heat in the fuel systems; but what about your aftermarket fuel system? High performance aftermarket fuel systems move a LOT of fuel...even our lower end systems may double the OEM capacity...and a high end system may churn out six times the fuel of the original pump(s).

A pair of 450 lph Walbro F90000267s running at 13.5 volts and 60 psi makes over 450 watts of heat. To put that in perspective, think about four 100 watt light bulbs sitting in your fuel tank!

Our typical 1200 rwhp fuel system will reach 170º F when operated in five gallons of fuel exposed to 70º atmosphere for two hours. (where evaporation helps cool the fuel)  A fuel tank in the summer under your hot car WILL get hotter, unless you do something about it. This elevated temperature makes your fuel pump internals wear faster and any chemical reactions happen a LOT faster...especially if you're running E85. (which is laden with additives and contaminants)

Now that I have your attention, let's talk about the OEM and aftermarket approaches to fuel heat management.


OEM FUEL SYSTEMS AND HEAT MANAGEMENT

Many high performance vehicles come with high capacity fuel systems that require some sort of provisions to reduce the heat. Vehicle manufacturers have the added burden of minimizing fuel heat for evaporative emissions.  Here are some of the methods vehicle manufacturers use to keep fuel cool:

POWER RESISTORS:  An old school technique used on Ford Lightnings and Subaru WRX have used power resistors to slow down the fuel pumps when under low loads. These power resistors have large heat sinks that absorb and dissipate the energy (heat) that would normally go into the fuel under most operating conditions.

MODULATION:  Electronic returnless systems such as those found in certain model Mustangs and late model Camaros modulate the fuel pump(s) based on demand from the engine using a fuel pump controller. When you're cruising around, the pumps simply run slower (and cooler).

HYBRID MODULATED/REGULATED:  Coyote based Mustangs use a fuel pump controller AND a static mechanical regulator to deliver fuel.  Under low load conditions, the fuel pump is operated at a lower voltage (slower and cooler); under load, the fuel pump voltage is "stepped" up to full voltage. Meanwhile, the mechanical regulator bypasses the excess fuel to keep fuel pressure constant.

PUMP DEACTIVATED:  The Nissan GT-R R35 has two fuel pumps. One is simply disabled when not required.


AFTERMARKET FUEL SYSTEMS AND HEAT MANAGEMENT

The nature of a comprehensive fuel system upgrade eliminates nearly all factory controls, so the easy solution is to simply omit any heat reducing measures.  In many cases this may be fine, especially where the car will only be run for short periods. However, some circumstances could be deadly for your fuel pumps. Here are some free and inexpensive methods to keep your fuel cooler and pumps healthy:

DEACTIVATE UNUSED PUMPS:  You don't need 1200-1800 rwhp of fuel pump blasting away while you putt around town, so opt for our FC3 controller and have that extra supply only on demand. You can trigger the other pumps however you like. Popular methods are via pressure switch, windows switch, nitrous controller, or boost controller's aux outputs.

FREQUENT INLINE FILTER CHANGES:  Some people think a drop in fuel pressure (at idle/cruising) is an indicator to change their filter. However, the fuel pressure regulator automatically compensates for a dirty filter, and the expected fuel pressure drop never happens. In the meantime, the fuel pump is working overtime (and running hotter and slower) to push past the dirty filter. If installing a fuel pressure gauge prior to the filter is too much trouble, at least change your filter every six months.  (more often for E85)  Our reusable stainless replacement element will pay for itself in three changes.

USE SMALLER FUEL PUMPS:  If you have a 800 rwhp centri blown high compression motor, you don't need nearly as much fuel as your neighbor's 800 rwhp low compression twinscrew setup. You can use the F10000302 pump that makes 35% less heat than what your neighbor needs. The general idea is to use only as much pump as you need...you can always upgrade later to a bigger pump.

KEEP MORE FUEL IN THE TANK:  The more fuel you have on board, the more of a thermal "reservoir" you have. If you have enough power that requires an upgraded fuel system, accept that you're not driving a Camry and your car requires additional precautions and considerations...and one of those is the life of your fuel pumps.  Keep your fuel levels high if you run the car for a long period of time.

ROAD TRIPS:  If you insist on a road trip with your beast, disconnect or disable the pump(s) you don't need. While you're at it, fill up with 87, put a sticky note on your tach, and forget about teaching any "lessons" along the way.

RUN PROPER BASE FUEL PRESSURE:  A factory GT500 spins the stock Eaton to 9 psi of boost. When you bolt on an aftermarket supercharger, do you pulley the blower for 9 psi? I bet you don't...and the same thing applies with your fuel system: the original fuel pressure means nothing. If you are running a standalone return style fuel system, set the fuel pressure to the rating of your injectors. (usually between 39-43 psi) We've heard the rationale from some tuners...and we can agree to disagree. We'll leave it alone since your tuner is ultimately responsible for how your car behaves, but keep in mind, the higher your fuel pressure, the fuel pumps will generate MORE heat with LESS output and live a SHORTER life.

Monday, July 9, 2012

340LPH Fuel Pumps for $19.50...yes, really!

UPDATE 7-9-2012 (12:58pm EDT)
Aeromotive and WAP Performance have mutually agreed that WAP Performance is not the supplier to Aeromotive for their fuel pumps.  Nonetheless, this email could open the potential that counterfeit fuel pumps are readily available.  The original post remains below.


Indeed, $19.50 per fuel pump.  We were contacted by a Chinese manufacturer of fuel pumps, and with a little encouraging conversation this manufacturer disclosed they were the maker of "rebranded" fuel pumps from two of our competitors.  Don't take our word for it...the proof is below:


-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 3:56am
To: sales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Fw: tuning parts

Hello,
I am hoping you might be able to help me with my enquiry. I am trying to find the responsible buyer in your purchasing department that is responsible for the commodity:HIGH FLOW FUEL PUMP.
Would you know who this person may be?
Thank you and best regards
Any more info,pls visit our web: www.warranty-care.com
Best Regards
Sarah Cheng
ZheJiang Warranty Care Auto Parts Co,.Ltd
(W.A.P PERFORMANCE)
Add.:No.155, Yucang West Road, Economic and Technical
Development Zone, Zhejiang, China
Tel/Cp.: 86-013958892595
Fax: 86-577-56998972
Email: 
warrantycare@warranty-care.com
MSN:MATURYZHENG@HOTMAIL.COM


----- Original Message -----
To: Jack
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:38am
Subject: RE: Fw: tuning parts

Thank you for contacting us. I am interested in the 340lph pump. Please send your published performance data for this pump and pricing.

Can you rebrand the pump?

Additionally, we would like a sample of this 340lph pump to validate the performance during operating conditions.

Best Regards,
Justin Fore
Fore Innovations, LLC
400 Venture Drive, Suite D
South Daytona, FL 32119



-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 8:46am
Tosales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

Thanks Justin
yes,now we are available 4 styles,incl gss340 gss341 gss342 gss340M. They all come with flow 320-340lph at 43psi (13.5V). also,we can engrave you company logo on the pump body.  meanwhile,you can check the details from Aeromotive 340LPH(you can buy samples to compare and test).
For 4 styles that the same price say usd19.50 with universial kits.
Regards
Jack


----- Original Message -----
To: Jack
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:13am
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

Okay, just to confirm...you are the manufacturer of the Aeromotive 340LPH?

Confirm that our price is 19.50USD per pump...how many must I order to get that price?

Lastly, what is the leadtime?

Thank you,
Justin Fore


-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:15am
Tosales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

yes,correct.
usually we require the MOQ is 50pcs.(if order amount up to 500pcs ,the price is usd19.00)
if order amount like 50-500,the production time is around 15days.


----- Original Message -----
To: Jack
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:30am
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts


Okay, good to know. Can you take credit card payment?  Last question: are you the manufacturer of this pump as well?  http://www.lethalperformance.com/divisionx-stryker-340lph-fuel-pump.html


Thank you,
Justin Fore



-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:35am
Tosales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

sorry,we just accept paypal,western union or bank transfer.
yes,those are the same pumps just the body color. pls see attached.thanks
now,aeromotive pump is red top and bottom with black casing(also,we only make this color to aero..)



-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 10:00am
To: sales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

pls confirm how many samples you will be need ?
now,we have some red top with black casing in stock.



----- Original Message -----
To: Jack
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts

Thanks,
But we're going to pass. These pumps have not lived up to our requirements in elevated operating temperatures or E85 fuels.



-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <warrantycare@warranty-care.com>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 10:42am
To: sales@foreinnovations.com
Subject: Re: Fw: tuning parts


okay,it doesn't matter.
the 340lph didn\t work with e85 now(but will be improved around 1-2months).  also,now we do the 290lph pump that work with e85,you can check that DW300 FUEL PUMP(The pump is come from my friend factory.)


Tuesday, July 3, 2012

Fore Precision is Out...But Who is In?



1200+ rear wheel horsepower cars using OEM factory fuel tanks…..unheard of until Fore Precision Works exploded on the market with the technology to make it happen.  That first generation of performance fuel systems was an engineering success, but there was room for considerable improvement.  Many of the products had flaws that were exposed over a period of time.


FUEL HOSES
After months and years of Fore Precision fuel hats sitting in fuel tanks full of race fuel, E85, and octane boosted pump gas, problems showed their ugly head.  Hoses failed or eroded...we came to find out that highly coveted SAEJ30R10 fuel hose is permeated by the aggressive fuels, erodes, and separates from it's reinforcement, causing eventual failure.


WIRING
Obviously the design must accommodate electrical circuits to provide electricity to the fuel pumps.  The Fore Precision designs simply had wire passing through the fuel hat.  That was a problem because fuel was able to climb up the inside of the wire like a tree root (capillary action) which created fuel smells and leaks.  The present generation of Fore Innovation fuel hats has a hermetic wire seal so there is no possibility of fuel leaks.


INTERNET RETAILING WITHOUT PRODUCT SUPPORT
Fore Precision allowed internet parts retailers with no technical expertise to sell the product to end users.  Internet parts retailers are very protective of the client database, so they will always serve as the "middle man" in any technical support situation.  Fuel supply and delivery is a technical product, and anybody selling should have a fluid mechanics background to properly support their customers.


CURRENT MARKET
When Fore Precision Works went out of business, there became a void in the performance fuel system market and several companies rushed to knock off the products.  Unfortunately, it appears that they just copied the old products without any improvements. (some even took shortcuts)  This lack of product enhancement indicates a lack of understanding for the engineering and technical requirements of fuel systems. In these knock off products, we have seen improperly designed o-ring glands, use of submersible fuel hose, improperly designed baffles, incorrect testing procedures, and misunderstanding of basic fuel system knowledge.


FORE INNOVATIONS
Fore Innovations has produced a next generation product line that corrects problems and enhances the overall design.  Our ideal customers are end users and speed shops were we can directly interface with whoever is installing the products.  When you buy from us, you get:
  • Interacting components that are designed and made to work together. (not rebranded components from a variety of manufacturers)  In the case we have to source a component from a different manufacturer, we promise it will fit.
  • You won't spend money on what you don't need.  We want your referral business, so it is in our best interest to take care of our customers.  For instance, we're not going to sell you big pumps and fuel rails if you don't need them.  Conversely, we'll advise if you're going down a road that is going to cause problems such as with calibration or fuel pump life.
  • You can speak directly to the engineer who designed the product(s) you are interested.  There are infinite fuel problems and solutions...only a company with a high level of technical knowledge can truly support all situations.  We have two experienced engineers on staff to support any customer with fuel system needs.
  • If you break something, we can fix it.  (of course, since we make it!)  It is rare, but once in a while somebody destroys something during installation...we'll get you through it.

Monday, June 18, 2012

E85 Attack on Metals and Rubbers

In regards to the blog title, we are more specifically interested in the materials used inside automotive fuel tanks. (NOT marine tanks) This includes fuel pumps, filters, tanks, level senders, fasteners, wiring, etc. There are tons of disinfomation scattered across the internet on this subject...based on ignorance, misdiagnosis, and corporate interest. So, let's set it straight:


Concern #1: Corrosion

The big concern is galvanic corrosion.  In layman's terms, this is where dissimilar metals are immersed in a conductive solution (electrolyte) that causes at least one metal to corrode.  (corrosion of metal in salt water)  In automotive fuel tanks, we typically have a combination of steel, aluminum, copper, brass, and stainless steel.

The concern is that E85 could possibly have a similar affect as filling your fuel tank with salt water.  In order to analyze this concern, let's look at the electrical conductivity of our suspects:

LIQUID                                           CONDUCTIVITY (S/m, higher number is more conductive=BAD) 
water                                0.0005 to 0.05
seawater                           4.8
gasoline                            0.0000000000000001
E85                                   0.0000000000074
glass                                 0.00000000001

(fellow nerds:  pardon my omission of scientific notation in the table...but I felt the presence of all the zeros helps correlate the relationships)

Indeed, E85 has a higher conductivity than gasoline.  However, it is hardly enough to be a concern.  E85 has similar conductivity to glass, which is often used as an insulator.  Therefore, E85 is not an electrolyte and galvanic corrosion cannot occur.  This is why we don't bother to fool our customers with "anodizing" or "coating" for E85 compatibility with our in-tank fuel modules.  If someone is selling you this, beware.


Concern #2: Chemical Compatiblity with Rubber and Seals

Many hoses and o-rings are commonly made from NBR, nitrile, or Buna-N rubber.  It is cheap and has descent chemical and temperature resistance.  NBR is shown to have "good" chemical resistance to gasoline and E85.  However, in our experience, NBR is not adequate for E85, especially in elevated temperatures in high performance automobiles.

In terms of seals, stick with Viton.  If you're buying o-ring type fuel fittings, make sure they have Viton o-rings.  That is, unless you're okay with risking your expensive motor over $20 in o-rings.

SAE J30R10 Fuel Hose
This submersible hose is generally constructed from reinforced rubber core with a flourocarbon inner and outer shield.  The flourocarbon shields are supposed to "protect" the core from gasoline.  Otherwise, the fuel will permeate (or soak in) the rubber core, causing it to expand and weaken the bond with the reinforcing fabric.  Safe?  Read on:

First of all, the SAE J30R10 hose specification does not include E85.  Let me repeat that:  SAE J30R10 is not for E85.  The ethanol molecule is MUCH smaller than "gasoline" molecules, which allow E85 to permeate easier than gasoline.

Let's assume the flourocarbon shields could prevent the permeation of E85.  Even so, there is no flourocarbon "shield" on the ends of the hose, because the hose has been cut.   If the hose end(s) are submerged, the fuel will permeate through the end of the hose, past the hose clamp, into the pressurized region, causing the rubber to expand, separate from the reinforcement, and eventually lead to failure.

Simple, avoid the use SAE J30R10 hose in E85. 

P.S.  race gas does the same thing to SAE J30R10 hose ;)